We’re exploring the question, “How do we walk out our faith in the midst of pain, suffering, disappointment, and loneliness,” with a book club discussion on Thursdays about Leaving Church by Barbara Brown Taylor. Today’s post from Deidra Riggs is inspired by Chapters 11-13. Her comment on my previous post started the book club idea and I consider her one my dearest on-line friends turned real-life. The realization that we’re both married to an H is what sparked our first blogging interaction and I haven’t missed one of her posts since.
Outside
“Who stands like that outside of church anymore, save dancers and children?” Barbara Brown Taylor
I don’t know if I hesitated, or if I just said it. “I can’t promise you I’ll be going to church.” No one flinched. At least, I don’t think they did. To be on the safe side, I added, “But I’d never say that to anyone outside of this room.” There may have been a sigh of relief. I can’t be sure.
We’ve only got three Sundays left, and then my husband and I are leaving church. For his sabbatical. Oh, we’ll be back. And when I made my announcement about the possibility of ditching church for our three months away, it was among a small group of friends who “get” me. They know this whole pastor’s wife thing doesn’t come easily to me.
Years ago, a young woman asked me what it’s like. Her eyes were bright and the way she looked at me, I knew I couldn’t actually tell her about the hard parts. I don’t know what I said, in the end. But I remember she told me, “All I really want is to marry a minister.” I wanted to tell her to reconsider, but it was obvious to me there’d be no way that message would — or could — get through.
I’m not trying to say it isn’t wonderful to marry a minister. All I’m saying is that it doesn’t come easily to me. The best advice I’ve ever received about how to be married to a minister came from my husband who, at the time, was my fiance and a seminarian. I didn’t know much at the time, but I knew enough about other people’s expectations to ask him, “If we do this thing. If we get married and you become a minister, what, exactly, will you be expecting of me?”
I braced myself for a list that included teaching Sunday School, playing the piano, wearing a hat. I don’t know if such a list would have been a deal-breaker, but I knew a list of expectations like that would have been — would still be — a stretch for me.
“Just keep growing in your relationship with Jesus,” he said.
“Hunh,” I thought to myself. In so many ways, it was such a small request. A tiny expectation. Just one thing. And no different from being married to someone who isn’t a minister, I imagine.
It’s what I’ve been trying to do. In fits and starts. When I’m being honest (and I want to be), I can admit to you that I don’t try all the time. But it is the one and only thing on my list, and I don’t berate myself for not remembering to bring “a dish to pass” every time we have dinner together after church. I’m sure there are many who consider me a slacker. And I am. When we’re honest, we see we all are, aren’t we?
It’s difficult to tell it well, I’ll be the first one to admit. Because the worst of my hurts (the ones that left me trying to figure out how to breathe again) happened in church and that is not the same as saying they happened in the Body of Christ. And the worst of my hurts are how I know that I know that I know that Jesus is Lord, that God loves me in spite of me, and that the Spirit of God is my constant companion, forever leading me to the throne of grace.
Paul says he learned to be all things to all people, so that he might win some, and I have to wonder how he learned that. It would be nice to think that one day he woke up and just got it. But, I don’t hear that happening very much. Not that it can’t, or that it doesn’t. But, it seems to me God likes to teach us things through experience. So, I wonder what experiences Paul had that led him to the spot on the map that said “Be all things to all people. Win some.” What path brought him to where “X” marked that spot beneath his feet; at the bottom of his soul? And how did he hang on to Jesus for himself, when he was being all things to everyone?
How did Paul remember to stand outside with his hands in the air, even when he wasn’t standing on that “X”? I want to see if I can still remember how to do it. On sabbatical, I want to see if I can still be like the dancers and the children, with my hands lifted in the air.
Q4U:
~On what “X” are you standing? How did you find it?
~In Chapter 13, Barbara says it was at the altar rail, when the congregants came forward to receive the bread and wine, that she came as close as ever to seeing who the congregants really were. When, in church, are you who you really are?
Deidra is a freelance writer, speaker, and small event planner. She is the managing editor of TheHighCalling.org, an online network that encourages everyday conversations about work, life, and God. Deidra is a contributor to incourage.me, social media consultant to the American Baptist Churches of NE, and owner of JumpingTandem, where she writes about adventures with a risky God. Follow Deidra on Twitter and Facebook, or at deidrariggs.com.
This hits a nerve and requires thought. I’ll be back.
I’ll wait here for you. 🙂
I’m right there with Deidra, it doesn’t come easy for me much of the time either. The expectations, the conflicts, the hurts, but there are the joys too, and so I keep on. My hubs favorite saying is “if you don’t quit, you win”, so I keep putting one foot in front of the other, loving Jesus, loving people, the best I can in my own imperfect way.
You’re right, Elizabeth, and I hope I didn’t minimize the joys. Like I said, it’s difficult to tell it well. Loving Jesus, loving people. It all boils down to that, doesn’t it? But not in a boiled down kind of way. Rather, in a way that makes the flavors richer and more meaningful. This challenge of doing life together in church has been one of the greatest experiences in life. And the most difficult. But I wouldn’t trade it. I wouldn’t.
Hi Deidra
This hits to close to home I think for many to be comfortable. Yes, some of the worst things that can be done to people, have been done to me in church. G.K. Chesterson said,” Men never do evil so cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction.”! Enjoy your Sabbatical as you dance to your hearts delight honoring your King.
Hugs XX
Mia
Yikes! I hope it doesn’t make people too uncomfortable. I’ve been on both sides of Chesterton’s quote – the one hurt, and the one doing the hurting. Not something I’m proud to admit.
When I read that line in the book about raising our hands outside of church, it settled itself down in my soul, and I wondered if I reserve my hand raising for inside the walls of the church. I guess I just want to be sure my faith is real, and that I can live it out when I’m functioning in the role of minister’s wife.
Oops. I meant to say “…when I’m not functioning in the role of minister’s wife.”
You sound so much like me, girl. I went to a preacher’s college with the express intent of NOT marrying one of them, even though it seemed to be the dream of all the girls in my dorm. I didn’t want the pretense, the guilt trips, the navel-gazing-self-analysis (in short, the b.s.) of many preacher’s wives I’d seen. I wanted to be free to follow Jesus. That’s all.
What is it we do to ourselves when we make ourselves more important to someone else’s salvation than we really ought to be? That Messianic complex is a tall order. (and I’m loving how Taylor is leaving it behind as this book develops.)
“Let my people go that they may worship Me.” Words for all who feel the weight, perhaps.
Enjoy your God as you find sabbath-rest, friend.
So true. The expectations don’t only come from others, do they? I just want to be sure I haven’t lost something along the way. After 26 years, this will be our first sabbatical. My first chance to see what it’s like to live out my faith without the church to hold me accountable. That quote you shared feels like the cry of my heart. I just want to make sure I can still lift my hands…
I enjoyed reading this Deidra. As a young woman I wanted to marry a preacher. In the south, 35 years ago, that was the only way for a woman to do “full time ministry.” Instead I married a blue collar worker and my full time ministry was our family. I’m not so sure I would have made the best pastor’s wife. I speak my mind, I am sensitive by nature, and it is very hard for me to see someone hurt my family. I’m sure all of these are a pastor’s wife daily challenges.
However, I have often wondered this, and have only said it to my best friends. I have watched pastor’s wives in leadership when they really have no gifting for it. And the woman who would do a wonderful job, who all the women do look to as an example, she is kept down by the church because she isn’t the pastor’s wife. I have fumed to myself, “where is it written the pastor’s wife has to be the one leading the women?!” I have seen this in big mega churches and little churches and sigh….Sometimes I think it would be so much better to just have them love Jesus in their own way. Use the gifts God gave them, and not try to be something they really shouldn’t be. Maybe it is time for an honest discussion about this subject from both sides, from the pastor’s wife and from the congregations the pastor serves. Wouldn’t it make sense to let them flow with their own gifts, their own ministry, instead of putting her in charge of women’s ministry? Children’s ministry? Let’s ask ourselves who really has the gift for that in the congregation; often that is not the pastor’s wife. It feels like a way to maintain control with just one family. It just doesn’t seem healthy to me…
What a great point! Yes! There are so many gifted women who can serve the church so well, if we would only let them. To answer your question, it would make perfect sense to “let them flow” in the places God has gifted them! Sounds like a blog post, my friend. At least a blog post. 🙂
Gayle, in all the churches where we have served the pastors wives were given the freedom to lead in ministry or not. In my case, the majority worked in other careers and the congregations were sad that the pastor’s wives weren’t more a part of the church ministry. That is a church of thousands with fifteen pastors/wives and several of a few hundred with smaller staffs. Just wanted to give some perspective on that subject. It’s all comes down to leadership in the church as to how it functions.
You are so brave, Deidra.
I’d say that during the three months of sabbatical, just listen to the Holy Spirit. Do or don’t do according to his leading. And continue to “just keep growing in your relationship with Jesus,” as H said. Personally, the time that I was away from church was precious, as is the time that I’m now back.
You always give me such good advice.
“the worst of the hurts happened in church…which is not to say they happened in the Body of Christ.” Oh, Amen to that!! and, that you know Jesus loves you through those breath gasping experiences. Oh, Amen to that, too. To go on loving the Lord, even when we are confused and hurt. That is the key. “At every turning of the winding way the Lord will appear to us. At every new demand we shall discover new bounty, and everywhere in the unfamiliar road we shall gaze upon the familiar and friendly face of the Lord.” -John Henry Jowett, My Daily Meditation
You are such a wealth of knowledge and encouragement, Maureen. Thank you for sharing your heart and wisdom with me.
hmmm..me thinkest that i shall be buying this book. 🙂 i was directed here by nicole@simply striving. Thank you for your honesty..i’m so glad I’m not the only one feeling this way.
Barbara Brown Taylor is one of my favorite authors. You might also enjoy “An Altar in the World.” So glad you’re here, Shannon. Sometimes it helps just to know someone is on the same journey, huh?
yes ma’am
Oh those hurts that happen in church – they are so hard. My husband used to be a pastor, and being a pastor’s wife is a hard job. I hope you find refreshment and renewal during this sabbatical.
Thank you, Tracie. Yes, it is difficult, but also rewarding. I think going so long without a break sometimes makes it hard to see the good. But it’s there. It’s always there.
I love you, D.
I think I find myself being more things to more people when I’m most concerned with pleasing Jesus. When I start to care what others think, they seem to think less of me. It’s a funny thing. It’s hard in ministry because you know the honest truth is that people are watching you, and you know whether they mean to or not, they do have expectations.
Letting the Lord deal with other people’s expectations toward me is one of my biggest struggles. Either I don’t want to disappoint, OR I rebel. Both are missing the mark.
Oh, I do think you’re on to something here. The way to hang onto to Jesus and be all things to all people is to hang on to Jesus. Letting those expectations go, and focusing on the ones that matter: Love God. Love people. Thanks for this, Amber.
You know I had to follow you over here to see what this “we are leaving the church” was all about strictly because I was running to get my bags packed too. LOL! Not that we want to take a break from God, but man…shouldn’t it be required that Pastors and their wives (families) take a sabbatical from the “church” every now and then? It can be physically and emotionally draining. Again, not the worship but as Kellywoodford said “the bs”. It does not come easy for me either. In fact, I just see myself as a disciple for Christ who is learning and growing with the rest of the congregation. I think by now (7 years), they pretty much know me. Not that I am “trying” to be standoffish but I am truly seeking to be authentic to them and to Christ. I can only be me.
Right. Not a break from God. But I do believe in taking time away. To get perspective and to make sure God is still the main thing. Sometimes I think He gets lost in church. At least for me.
You are beautiful! The church where God has you is blessed, indeed!
the hanging on to Jesus, when you’re being all things to all people… that balance is hard for me. Either I’m feeling spread too thin, or I’m trying to find a quiet corner to hide in. Very rarely is it because of others’ expectations – it’s usually me… I can’t imagine any other life, don’t really want to – I love it – but that doesn’t make it easy 🙂
Exactly. I wouldn’t change anything. It’s not easy, and a break is going to be nice. But still, I wouldn’t change anything.
I believe what your husband told you before you were married, that one expectation to “keep growing in your relationship with Jesus”, really is His only desire for us. Hands up or hands down, inside and outside of church doors.
This morning I was talking to my sons about how God does not desire for us to be idle. That we need rest but not idleness. My older son said, “A pause, not a stop.”
I thought that was exactly right. And I’m praying that this pause will be a holy one for you and your husband.
I am so glad Shelly invited you to post here today. I can see why she loves you Deidra. 🙂
“Hands up or hands down….” I like that.
You always make me think! My first reaction is that I could never “ditch church”. “This whole pastor’s wife thing doesn’t come easily to me” either. However, I strongly believe God calls me not only to himself but also into a community of believers. That’s a relationship, of course, not necessarily a structure, but it’s within my church family that I find ongoing nurture and support for my faith. I want to burn brightly for God, but like the wood in my fireplace or campfire, that only happens when we’re all gathered together. When the firewood is pulled apart to burn separately in different corners, each piece very soon extinguishes. Part of my responsibility and commitment as a child of God is to encourage and support others in the community. I can’t do that if I hold myself apart.
Temporary retreats can be a blessing, of course — times when we move out of the circle to commune exclusively with God — but I think they need to be brief and intended solely for refreshment through spiritual nourishment, not as some kind of escape.
That said, I *do* appreciate his admonition to “Come away by yourselves to a desolate place and rest a while.” (Mark 6:31) I love times away camping or a weeklong writing retreat at our little cabin, so while you’re away I hope you (and your husband) find the renewal you’re seeking.
The rest is the part I’m most looking forward to. It must be the introvert in me.
When I was in middle school and high school, I’d come home every day, go to my room, and shut the door until it was time for dinner. I needed that down time to regenerate and find the energy to face the next day. I’m still like that. Take me to a conference, and there is a good chance that by the third day, I’ll skip the morning session, just to spend some time alone, catching my breath. The goal is always to re-engage because relationships are so important to me. But without time away, I’m no good by day three. I think that’s the purpose this sabbatical will serve. It’s been twenty-six years without substantial time to reflect and regenerate. I just need a bit of time in my room with the door shut, so that I can be better in the relationships that matter to me.
Hi Deidra…I thoroughly enjoyed your guest post today. I have a brother-in-law who is a pastor and I often see the tensions of his ‘job’ reflected in her face. She is not what you’d call your ‘typical’ pastor’s wife, although she does play piano, teach little ones, and head up women’s ministry within their church. But she certainly isn’t mousy, quiet, nor always submissive. Everyone whose ever given my brother-in-law a ‘pastorship’ has had to reconcile to receiving my sister-in-law in the bargain. Yet, they always get used to her and find that her zeal for the things of God is the pleasant by-product. They are a team!
I wished to make a comment on chapter 12, pgs. 147-148. Where Barbara Brown Taylor is writing about “too much sun in church”. The way people disappeared from church when their lives were breaking down. She writes of the widow who cannot sit in church without weeping. And the young man, freshly diagnosed with AIDS. She laments that she is sorry “that church did not strike these wounded souls as a place they could bring their dark fruits of their equally dark nights”.
I really related to this. I have only been a member in 2 churches in my 20 or so years of being a Christian. But in both places, I grew very weary of the “all is well in my world” scenario every Sunday. People arriving all spit and polished in their best dress, shining for all of us to see, when you knew darn well they had troubles just like everyone else. I grew weary of their pat answers for everything. I grew weary of myself…trying to fit in by presenting myself in the same way. In fact, those who did dare to ‘be real’, voicing their struggles and set-backs, were treated with contempt sometimes. Like why can’t they get it together? “Trust the Lord…Praise the Lord” was the going mantra. If you dared voice a recurring problem in your life, you were labelled a ‘whiner’, and a ‘complainer’ who should just be more grateful. And I believe that is often why so many fall through the cracks. Oftentimes, there is more judging within the church, than with out. And pastors wonder why people leave, and do not wish to return. I find that church people let others in only so far, and no further.
Then, in chapter 13, pg. 162, Ms. Taylor has written about her missing the sharing of communion with people she loves. She says that if others are not aware of this great mystery as they sit in their pews, then there are at least two things wrong: “Worship has become too tame, and the other is that those who come have stopped bringing their own fire.” She says, “When life is pretty good and church is pleasant enough, who needs resurrection?” Sadly, I also related to these words. And I guess what scared me most of all, is that I began to find my passion and fire fizzling out in the church I was in. It was becoming all so very routine and tame. I needed ‘new life’ from somewhere…and, for now, I am finding it away from church. More centred in Him, but away from ‘church’.
Oh, you bring up SUCH good points! Thank you for this! I’m praying your time away from church enriches you, and gives you insight for when you make your return. I was rereading these chapters in preparation for this post and I underlined that passage about tame and fire, and then made my husband read those words. It’s what I love about Barbara Brown Taylor – her ability to make it plain without smashing me over my head. I don’t want to fizzle out, either, Jillie. Stepping away for a bit may help me to take my own temperature and let God stoke the flames where it’s necessary. Blessings on your journey, friend.
Thanks, D. I’ve used that line before in the pulpit – except that I say ALL of the major hurts I’ve suffered in my life have been from people in a congregation somewhere. But, NEARLY ALL of the extreme joys I’ve had have also come from people in congregation, or who belonged to one. In 29 yrs in the ministry, I am about to take my first sabbatical! Pastoring now in a military town, and having been a full time police chaplain, I know the wisdom of offering persons in those high-intensity/high-stress jobs retirement EARLIER than most others. Someone did a study recently that (not surprising to me) suggested that pastors (and by extension, their spouses) may, in most cases, do themselves a favor by early retirement from “obligatory” ministry. The least they can therefore do, is LEAVE CHURCH…occasionally! My lovely V, a ministry spouse who has never led a women’s group or played piano or taught Sunday School (a true rebel like you, D!!!) has been a bedside nurse for much of her career. I read her firm decision to leave bedside nursing for nursing “professoring” as her “early retirement” from a stressful enterprise. I also use it to reinforce another of my quotes that, “The church is full of people with various illnesses, and led by people with various illnesses, and we are all at differing stages of convalescence. Therefore, we must continue healing in our Lord, and be patient with each other”. However, LEAVING CHURCH occasionally – at least for the pastor and spouse – is good respite. Enjoy the sabbatical!!! V and I are 6 months right behind you and H!
I’ve heard it said the church is a place of hospitality, a word which, in the dictionary, falls between “hospital” and “hospice”. I think this short time away will reap great reward for H and me, for you and V, and for our church families as well.
so good, Deidra. I love what H told you–just keep growing in Jesus. yes. if only we would just do that one thing. Praying your sabbatical is pure rest and restoration for you both.
Yeah, H is good at giving advice. Thanks for your prayers, friend.
I’ve been chewing on this all day and still I can’t formulate my heart into sentences. Finished Leaving Church last night and my mind is overwhelmed with clarity if that can even make sense.
I have to confess: My ‘X’ used to be placed in a building where I found sacred. Where I went wrong was confusing sacred for holy ground.
It’s taken me 12 years to admit that.
Beautiful post, Deidra. thank you for stirring me up.
I know exactly what you mean about Leaving Church and being overwhelmed with clarity. That is a perfect description. And, I needed you to say this here. I needed to be reminded that there is a difference. Thank you. Blessings…
oh yes. these times away. My daddy was a preacher, so I know how important these times, spaces apart from the role of the church are. Enjoy this time of rest from expectations, your own and others and I have no doubt you’ll come back with renewed energy and spirit.
Thank you, Tara!
Deidra, thank you so much for such an excellent and transparent post. Being a minister’s wife cannot be easy; I admire you. Your words made me immediately think of a dear friend who was a pastor’s wife. She was (and is!) a beautiful Christian, but I think she was ill-suited for the pastor’s wife “role” as one might typically think of it (or perhaps as their congregants demanded it). She had many gifts (spiritual and otherwise) to share in the Church, but I sensed she felt as if she lived in a stained-glass fish-bowl for all the congregants to see (and criticize). I always had the sense she wanted to break out. She was a wonderful wife, but I’m not sure that signing up for wife means one must sign up for minister’s wife as most churches define it. In the end (and not because of her), her husband landed in another ministry. I think we expect too much of both ministers and their wives at times. At the very least, we should support them as much as we can and understand that they have the same problems that we have (except maybe more, because they have to deal with us, their congregation, as well!) It’s wonderful the way in which your husband has supported you, wanting you to grow in the Lord and not demanding that you play a particular role. Who hired him anyway?! 🙂 Those H guys (yours and Shelly’s) sound like special men. I will have to admit, when I read about your “ditching” church (strong word), I clutched a little. But as I read on, I see what you are doing. I thought the exchange between you and Carol was excellent, and I hear you both. God commands us not to forsake our assembling together as the Church, and yet there are times, which are unique, where He draws us aside to meet with Him solitarily “in the wilderness.” I pray that you and your husband (I almost said your H! 🙂 ) will find this as a time of rest, refreshment, and rejuvenation in the Lord and with each other. Truth be told, I ditched the church once in my 30s for about six months, because all the preacher preached was psychology and told stories and jokes. My husband and I had stayed in this church for eight years, but we were starving to death. Finally, we just left. But then we stopped attending any church. That was *not* right. In retrospect, I realize we shouldn’t have ditched worshiping with a body of believers. We simply should have found another church. A dear Christian friend gently explained how important (and Biblical) it was to be part of the fellowship believers and led us to a church that revered the Lord and His Word. We got back on track. And like you, I have experienced deep pain in the church. It is so difficult to understand why this happens, but maybe God uses it to cause us to grow in ways we would not have otherwise and to understand Christ’s suffering and reflect His love when it is not returned. Thank you for sharing, Deidra, and again, I hope you have much joy and gain many insights in your Sabbatical interlude. Oh, and as for the X, flip it on its side, and it becomes a Cross. Standing (or lying prostrate) at the foot of the Cross is where I need to stand, and I try my best to be who I really am (sin and all) in church. If people don’t see the real me (which is pretty rotten), then I can’t get the help from them I need.
Lynn, thank you for such a thoughtful response. One year, when I was in college, the church I attended used Hebrews 10:24, 25 as our memory verses for the year. Each Sunday, we recited that passage together as a congregation. It’s one of the first passages from the bible that pops into my head whenever I think I might miss a Sunday, whether as a result of sickness, travel, or laziness.
Did your friend find it easier after her husband found a different ministry?
Thank you for this reminder, Deidra. Yes these are verses we should all memorize and take to heart. I like your idea of this reminder from Hebrew under the circumstances you mention. And yes, I do think my friend found it easier…..perhaps he did, too. They are both in ministry, but just not in the local church (though they do go 🙂 ) Sadly, I think there is a growing trend amongst believers simply not to attend church at all–thinking they can “do church” on their own–in other words, just worship God on their own–and that God considers that all right. While we can worship God anywhere, He specifically calls us together to corporate worship. THere are many other Biblical passages (beyond Hebrews, which you cite), which underscore this point. Ultimately “leaving church” isn’t God’s idea….I mean, leaving it for good. A Sabbatical is another thing, and I think God is going to meet you powerfully in this interlude, as I’d said before. I will be praying for such a sweet time for you! When do you leave?
“Because the worst of my hurts (the ones that left me trying to figure out how to breathe again) happened in church and that is not the same as saying they happened in the Body of Christ.”
That is so, so true, I would go as far to say that the worst of the hurts that happen in church are because the church isn’t being the Body of Christ.
May the Lord refresh and renew both of you on this sabbatical, Deidra.
Amen. And thanks, Patricia.